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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0000484madVRbugpublic2017-06-13 14:352017-06-17 13:12
ReporterSfor 
Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
StatusnewResolutionopen 
PlatformHP 8000 Elite CMT GeForce 8600GTOSWindowsOS VersionXP 32Bit
Summary0000484: Display shows very high refresh rates (about 200) instead of keeping at 60Hz. Clock deviation above 200%.
DescriptionI moved the hard drive from HP dc7900 CMT E8500 to HP 8000 Elite CMT E8600. After installing the missing drivers it appeared the video playback from MPC-HC became very unstable. The video and audio are out of sync quite often, the playback is not smooth, as it should be. The lower the video resolution the higher the display couner goes. It looks like the GPU always works with full throtlle adding frames, when the montor works at just the 60Hz. The presentation glitch couner is constantly rising, even with the video playback paused.

I tried many things:
- I did replace graphic cards with GeForce 8600 GTS, GeForce 9500 and GeForce 6600.
- I did fall back to old NVidia drivers along with GeForce 6600
- I did try to move to MPC-BE.
- I did the clean Windows XP install with all the drivers and applications.
But, I failed to solve the problem.

Everything works perfectly on Windows 7. When it comes to Windows XP, I had no problem with HP dc7800 and HP cd7900. So it appears HP 8000 Elite with installed Windows XP is the cause, somehow.

On HP dc7900 everything works fine with display counter at 59,9xxHz with clock deviation below 0.1%.

On HP 8000 elite, the display couter shows 60Hz, at first. The the couter jumps higher at the next second always showing above 200% of clock deviation.
Steps To ReproduceHP 8000 Elite CMT with any of GeForce 8600 GTS, GeForce 8600 GT, GeForce 9500 GT, GeForce 6600, with Windows XP installed.
Additional InformationThe problem does not seem to be related to a particular NVidia GPU.
TagsNo tags attached.
madVR Version0.91.10
Media Player (with version info)MPC-HC 1.7.11
Splitter (with version info)LAVFilters 0.68.1
Decoder (with version info)LAVFilters 0.68.1
DecodingSoftware
Deinterlacingnone (progressive)
DXVA2 Scaling Activeno
Aero / Desktop CompositionOff
Problem occurs with modeall modes
GPU ManufacturerNVidia
GPU ModelGeForce 8600 GTS, GeForce 8600 GT, GeForce 9500 GT, GeForce 6600
GPU Driver Version340.52
Attached Files

- Relationships

-  Notes
(0001659)
madshi (administrator)
2017-06-13 15:05

Don't know what that could be. I don't have an XP PC, anymore, so I'm not sure if I can do anything about this. My recommendation would be to use Windows 8.1. It's really the best media player OS at the moment. You can use the freeware "Classic Shell" to get a nice start menu.
(0001660)
Sfor (reporter)
2017-06-14 10:54
edited on: 2017-06-14 10:55

I made an interesting discovery, after replacing the CPU E8600 with E8500. Now the diplay counter keeps below 60Hz and clock deviation below 100%. Still the value is jumping quite a bit. The presentation glitch counter is constantly increasing, but the rate it is clicking is about 100 times slower.

Right after system tranfser from dc7900 to 8000 Elite, the video and audio was completely unsyncronized, as the video went far ahead of the audio. But after reverting MadVR to default settings it started to work much better.

I think the original problem is related to audio syncronization, somehow. The E8600 just made the things much worse. With the E8500, sometimes, at the beginning the display counter goes above 60Hz. Then some frames are dropped and the counter stays below 60Hz, from now on. So the MadVR is able to find a solution to a problem. But, with E8600 everyting is going nuts.

(0001661)
madshi (administrator)
2017-06-14 11:22
edited on: 2017-06-14 11:22

You could try different audio renderers. Maybe even Reclock. Maybe also try different audio drivers.

(0001662)
Sfor (reporter)
2017-06-14 11:37

I just turned the integrated Realtek HD Audio adapter off, then added a PCI Avance Logic ALS4000 card. The driver should be different I think. Still, the Avance Logic is part of Realtek.

The display counter jumps from 50 to 75 Hz. The clock deviation remains at about 104%. It does seem the problem is not directly related to sound driver or hardware.
(0001663)
madshi (administrator)
2017-06-14 11:44

Must be the GPU driver, then. I don't suppose you have an AMD GPU lying around somewhere?
(0001664)
Sfor (reporter)
2017-06-14 12:16

As a matter of fact I do have two Athlon 64 X2, but they are a little too big to fit the motherboard slot.

Well, the ReClock filter made things a lot worse. The playback freezes after each second.
(0001665)
madshi (administrator)
2017-06-14 12:17

Athlon 64 sounds like a CPU? Anyway, why don't you install Windows 8.1? That's really the best recommendation I can give. I'm actually considering dropping XP support at some point in the future.
(0001666)
Sfor (reporter)
2017-06-14 12:59
edited on: 2017-06-14 13:00

I invested a lot of time in setting the system exactly the way I want it. Some of the tweaks were adopted from Windows 98. I have no way of using the same things in Windows 7 and newer. First, I will see how the overlay mixer along with xy-VSFilter will suit my needs. If it will be lacking in something, then I will decide either to move to a different hardware or newer OS.

(0001667)
madshi (administrator)
2017-06-14 15:40

I understand. But FWIW, XP is really outdated as a media playback OS. For example, Windows 8.1 introduced APIs to do 3D Blu-Ray playback. And Windows 10 recently introduced APIs to do HDR playback. Furthermore, XP is limited to max 3 pre-presented frames, while Windows 7 (and newer) support up to 16 frames, which is important for madVR to provide smooth and reliable playback. Also XP will probably never be able to decode HEVC fluidly. There's really no reason to stick to XP. Windows 8.1 is better in every aspect, IMHO. Except for the stupid Metro GUI stuff and the missing start menu.
(0001668)
Sfor (reporter)
2017-06-14 17:19

Well, true. Still, I do not have a Blu-Ray device, and I do not plan to buy one. I'm not interested in 3D movies, either. The same goes for HDR I think. I do have an old Samsung 42" plasma tv with just 1024x768. I do not plan to buy a better one, either (According to the Polish law I do not have to pay a certain tax, if I do not have a receiver able to play public TV broadcasts. Somehow the law does not apply to the Internet as a source of the auditions).

The biggest advantage of the MadVR is the support for XySubFilter, which seems to be the most efficient subtitle renderer, right now. On the other hand, since I started using E8500 two years ago I found no need for higher processing power. Switching to xy-VSFilter and overlay mixer should put a bit more stress on the CPU. But perhaps E8600 will just do (E6800 was not enough, in some cases). Also I do like GOM Player. If it would support MadVR I would never leave it behind, like I did switching to MPC-HC. I'm still missing the perfect OSD, which MadVR along with MPC-HC just can not support.

The video playback world is everchanging. I had to leave behind Windows 98 and 2000, as the 10bit era pushed 8bit video encoding out of the picture.

For now, the biggest advantage of Windows 7 and newer systems seems to be a better support for hardware video playback acceleration in Internet browsers. The Windows XP does not seem to stand a chance on this field. On the other hand Windows XP gives a more tools to tweak font sizes. For an example it is easy to increase just the file list fonts in the Explorer. Making easy to select the files in the Explorer for a person with a bad eyes, while still keeping most of the dialog windows intact. In case of Windows 7, increasing the font to 200% makes many dialogs unable to feet the screen. In XP I do have about 400% of the standard file list font, and the dialog windows are still small enough to feet the screen. I'm not saying it is not possible to do the same with Windows 7. Windows XP is able just to do that out of the box, just as the Windows 98 did.
(0001669)
madshi (administrator)
2017-06-14 17:35

If you do decide to upgrade the OS, please consider using Windows 8.1 instead of Windows 7. It's better for video playback in several aspects.
(0001670)
Sfor (reporter)
2017-06-17 12:34

Well I did an experiment by switching to integrated with motherboard Intel graphics adapter (GMA X4500). But no change. So the GPU driver does not seem to be a problem here. I do not think switching to AMD GPU would change anything. At least chances seem to be extremely low.
(0001671)
madshi (administrator)
2017-06-17 13:12

Well, not sure what the problem is, then. Usually problems like this are either caused by the GPU hardware/driver or audio hardware/driver. I suppose you could try reinstalling Direct3D9, just to be safe, but that sounds unlikely to help.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2017-06-13 14:35 Sfor New Issue
2017-06-13 15:05 madshi Note Added: 0001659
2017-06-14 10:54 Sfor Note Added: 0001660
2017-06-14 10:55 Sfor Note Edited: 0001660 View Revisions
2017-06-14 10:55 Sfor Note Edited: 0001660 View Revisions
2017-06-14 11:22 madshi Note Added: 0001661
2017-06-14 11:22 madshi Note Edited: 0001661 View Revisions
2017-06-14 11:37 Sfor Note Added: 0001662
2017-06-14 11:44 madshi Note Added: 0001663
2017-06-14 12:16 Sfor Note Added: 0001664
2017-06-14 12:17 madshi Note Added: 0001665
2017-06-14 12:59 Sfor Note Added: 0001666
2017-06-14 13:00 Sfor Note Edited: 0001666 View Revisions
2017-06-14 15:40 madshi Note Added: 0001667
2017-06-14 17:19 Sfor Note Added: 0001668
2017-06-14 17:35 madshi Note Added: 0001669
2017-06-17 12:34 Sfor Note Added: 0001670
2017-06-17 13:12 madshi Note Added: 0001671


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